Point / Counterpoint

"BrtStlnd" (BrtStlnd)
05/21/2014 at 13:48 • Filed to: Echo chamber

Point: The Panther platform cars are awesome.

Counterpoint: They're shitty cars for people that can't afford anything better than a used taxi or police cruiser.

Thoughts?

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DISCUSSION (49)

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > BrtStlnd
05/21/2014 at 13:49

awesome.

BrtStlnd > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
05/21/2014 at 13:50

That's not an opinion, that's just a word.

William Byrd > BrtStlnd
05/21/2014 at 13:50

How many RWD V8 sedans can you go out and buy for pennies on the dollar that are fairly reliable, super comfortable, and have tons of space.

That's pretty much it. I go former.

CalzoneGolem > BrtStlnd
05/21/2014 at 13:51

asshole

BrtStlnd > William Byrd
05/21/2014 at 13:51

Do you think there's a reason you can buy them for pennies on the dollar?

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > BrtStlnd
05/21/2014 at 13:51

it is an alternate spelling for "panther".

LOL

These cars are fantastic honestly. Just because someone isn't a fan of their looks doesn't mean you can discount the cars capabilities. Nothing better for a road trip, the MPG really isn't THAT BAD on them and they can even be turned into hotrods really easily.

I hate the look of Porsche's and BMW's, doesn't mean they aren't fast or nice inside or don't have good handling.

William Byrd > BrtStlnd
05/21/2014 at 13:52

Yes, they are two decades old and there are thousands of them. Plus they weren't that expensive to begin with.

For Sweden > BrtStlnd
05/21/2014 at 13:52

If you want a car that's a sporty backroad carver straight out of the box, of course you're going to hate the Panther. It's nothing like a Miata, Focus ST, or a E46 BMW M3.

If you want a highway cruiser that's supremely comfortable, very tuneable, and will run until the sun sets on the British Empire, then the Panther is a fantastic car.

Alex from Toronto > BrtStlnd
05/21/2014 at 13:52

Build quality is decent easy to mod the engine/Drivetrain, so overall good car

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > BrtStlnd
05/21/2014 at 13:52

Counter-counterpoint: slow, ugly, heavy, and outdated are sexy, sexy words. Anyone who says otherwise is opulencing wrong.

Kinja'd!!!

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > CalzoneGolem
05/21/2014 at 13:53

thats both an opinion AND just a word.

Good work!

BrtStlnd > For Sweden
05/21/2014 at 13:53

In my experience hearing from folks that own these, your reliability claim is without merit.

Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis > BrtStlnd
05/21/2014 at 13:54

They have a purpose in the world. But to claim they are pinnacle of automotive achievement like many claim is a bit of an overstatement. Many cars can do the same thing, with less space and better gas mileage at only the expense of RWD. Just about what you want in a car.

For Sweden > BrtStlnd
05/21/2014 at 13:54

Because their old, numerous, and Baby Boomers aren't collecting them.

The Daily Hoon > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
05/21/2014 at 13:55

They get 20 mpg if you're lucky. Meanwhile, you could be getting 35 mpg in a more comfortable Accord, Camry, Taurus, etc. etc.

Having a V8 doesn't mean anything if it's an anemic, underpowered, and shitty V8. An EVO has a 4 cylinder engine just like the Protege did. The panther is like the protege in that it sucks.

The Daily Hoon > BrtStlnd
05/21/2014 at 13:56

That's the trick: the sun has already set on the British Empire, meaning all Panthers are old and terrible.

offroadkarter > BrtStlnd
05/21/2014 at 13:56

I can't stand most panther enthusiasts

and all of you know what I fucking drive!

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > BrtStlnd
05/21/2014 at 13:56

Apart from needing a front suspension rebuild (as all of them do), the GrandMa owned by some friends who are very abusive on cars is holding up very well indeed. They're very physically tough, which some confuse for reliability, but reliability is certainly not bad.

For Sweden > BrtStlnd
05/21/2014 at 13:56

At least one insurance group gives the reliability claim merit.

http://www.insweb.com/new-cars/10-mo…

505Turbeaux > BrtStlnd
05/21/2014 at 13:57

Kinja'd!!!

you shut your mouth on your counterpoint, right meow

BrtStlnd > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
05/21/2014 at 13:58

I think your last sentence hits a bulls eye.

For Sweden > BrtStlnd
05/21/2014 at 13:58

Also, people who drive Crown Vics for a living cite their high reliability.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/dr…

FJ80WaitinForaLSV8 > BrtStlnd
05/21/2014 at 13:59

Talk to any taxi cab driven. They are extremely reliable.

The Daily Hoon > BrtStlnd
05/21/2014 at 13:59

Point: Ray Wert said these cars were awesome once so that means ALL OF US MUST WORSHIP THEM.

Counterpoint: In reality, they are easy to obtain, average to maintain, land yachts that handle like shit, get shitty gas mileage, but have huge as fuck trunk space to carry all of my kids dumb shit and I can say I'm a car guy but in reality that ship has sailed and I won't just buy the minivan or Camry or Accord I should buy.

William Byrd > BrtStlnd
05/21/2014 at 14:00

We get it, you don't like the Panther platform.

And none of us expect to change your mind. Nor should you expect us to change ours. The internet is great for a lot of things, altering opinions isn't one of them. But if you'd like to spend your afternoon as "counterpoint", go for it! :)

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > BrtStlnd
05/21/2014 at 14:00

...and as it so happens, I'm fond of physically tough cars - with reliability below the top tier acceptable as long as I can work on them. Which, on a Panther, I can.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > The Daily Hoon
05/21/2014 at 14:00

They're rated once you get into the 2000s at around 25-26 mpg. I'm not saying whether it's real world or not because I don't own one.

BUT that being said my FWD V6 3.0 Mercury Milan is only rated at 28. 2 less cylinders, a lot lighter of a car and not much improvement. Like I said, mileage isn't THAT bad. Added benefit is it's so cheap you might re-coup that added MPG cost.

BrtStlnd > William Byrd
05/21/2014 at 14:01

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, although I do think that their awesomeness is very overrated. I saw Louros's post on the front page and was surprised at the amount of support it got, given the Panther's normally huge support group on here.

FJ80WaitinForaLSV8 > BrtStlnd
05/21/2014 at 14:01

These cars are awesome (I am biased I own one). I think they are awesome for a few reasons. 1) V8 that can be easily turned since it was in a shit ton of mustangs. 2) simplicity, I love that its body on frame and has a live rear axles. 3) stupid simple to work on, especially with all the room under the hood. 4) large size - the trunk is ridiculous 5) the car is very stout and a great towing rig. 6) front bench seats are awesome and a requirement for any car that I buy. 7) they are inexpensive and so are parts.

Takuro Spirit > BrtStlnd
05/21/2014 at 14:02

I bought one (okay, two) because they were cheap, and I always wanted an ex-cop car. Or two.

I'm past that phase now and wouldn't want another. Unless it was a B4C Camaro or SSP Mustang.

And I could afford the gas expense again....

Kate's Dirty Sister > BrtStlnd
05/21/2014 at 14:04

The panther is like a Chevette, but for the mentally challenged obese.

Kinja'd!!!

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > William Byrd
05/21/2014 at 14:05

A 2 year old Dodge Charger R/T or Chrysler 300C.

Takuro Spirit > BrtStlnd
05/21/2014 at 14:05

My second one, a well cared for small town 2001 only needed ONE repair, and Ford should have covered it under the recall/TSB. Stupid intake manifold. Other than that and some cosmetic upgrades, I spent $0 on that car.

Most departments drive them till the wheels are a hair from falling off, then send them to auction. If you buy ANY worn out high mile fleet car at auction you're gonna have a bad time.

BrtStlnd > Kate's Dirty Sister
05/21/2014 at 14:06

I love how there's a bottle of Windex on the ground, presumably because those windows are dirty.

Kate's Dirty Sister > The Daily Hoon
05/21/2014 at 14:10

A 12 years old CR-V is better at everything.

T5Killer > Kate's Dirty Sister
05/21/2014 at 14:12

Except for hooning.

Kate's Dirty Sister > T5Killer
05/21/2014 at 14:15

A CR-V can do donuts in the snow if it's your definition of hooning, which by the way, isn't a word.

Nothing > BrtStlnd
05/21/2014 at 14:21

Inexpensive/easy to purchase and maintain is about the only thing these have going for them. My dad had Grand Merqs and Crown Vics in the 80's. I had fun tooling around in the 2 door Crown Vic, at least, but in no way would I consider purchasing a panther that wasn't a Marauder. But that negates the "inexpensive to purchase" point.

The Daily Hoon > Kate's Dirty Sister
05/21/2014 at 14:29

YOU'RE NOT A WORD.

Camry-Into-Canyon > BrtStlnd
05/21/2014 at 14:35

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Kinja'd!!!

/endthread

Agrajag > BrtStlnd
05/21/2014 at 14:55

Where has all the B-Body love gone? I remember a time when no self respecting Police Department wanted these because the Caprice existed.

sigh

PardonMyFlemish16 > BrtStlnd
05/21/2014 at 15:01

Counterpoint is invalid. The only thing a Camry can't do better is power oversteer and tow. Ironically, the 2007 F-150 RWD supercab was cheaper to buy and only got marginally worse fuel economy. With the Ecoboost one and the new transmission it's kind of no contest.

SWB Panthers also have shit rear seat space. They are just terrible cars. I'm glad they're gone.

feather-throttle-not-hair > BrtStlnd
05/21/2014 at 15:39

countercounter point: in the future, our shitty cars for people who can't afford anything better will all be fwd hybrids that work better than any panther ever did in every conceivable way other than the ability to make donuts.

Donuts are fucking important.

Amrit D. > The Daily Hoon
05/21/2014 at 16:40

Coming from an owner, they handle pretty well. You have less of a chance of doing a flying orlove than in the ford mustang I owned.

fweafewafewawea > Kate's Dirty Sister
05/21/2014 at 23:56

die painfully cretin.

William Byrd > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
05/22/2014 at 07:26

That's $20K-$30K, I'm talking $5K....

Pesos on the dollar is a better analogy perhaps.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > William Byrd
05/22/2014 at 08:30

It is some amount of pennies on the original dollar. Also the V8 Charger starts new at $30K, so a two year old model should be low 20s to high 10s for used cost.

It's not used taxi price, but its the closest we have to a proper RWD sedan being made by GM/Ford/Chrysler.

William Byrd > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
05/22/2014 at 08:39

I searched 500 miles of DC for 2012 R/T Chargers, didn't break $20K. But I agree it's a heck of a deal regardless.

I guess it has more to do with what you are looking for. Do you want a RWD V8 beater that is semi-disposable? Or do you want a real legitimate DD vehicle that you will keep for awhile. I still maintain it's harder to get meet the criteria I laid out in my initial post much cheaper than the Panther.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > William Byrd
05/22/2014 at 10:58

It's not impossible to find them under $20K. Autotrader shows 8 across the entire country, from MY2011 to MY2013. If you let the years get older, you start seeing better deals.

But OK, I'll give you that. They weren't made in the numbers that the Panther was, but it *is* the only full-size RWD American sedan made currently.